Yes, the infamous Croc has made it to the local masjid. I couldn’t wear my boots into the washroom so I had to make due. I wore the cutest pair–and by cutest, I mean the ones that didn’t make me gag.
Here was the selection of Crocs. I think I chose the right ones, especially when you compare them to the stylish Tie-Dye Crocs.
And while it was nice to be in the mosque and I heard a very lovely khutba, I received some distressing news from a sister. I won’t go into the details because it’s just too ridiculous. I’ll only give this advice.
DON’T SETTLE!
Sisters and brothers, don’t marry just anybody. Don’t get married for any reason. Please be picky. Please! We are encouraged to get married…not marry the first schmuck (or schmuckette) who comes our way. I don’t care if I have to wait until I’m 50!
DON’T SETTLE!
::::::Rant Over:::::
Saifuddin said,
February 1, 2008 at 10:03 pm
BismillaharRahmanirRahim
as-salaamu ‘alaikum. This is something I’ve been considering for some time now. And since you have passionately posted a post that is closely related I will pose the question here and see what you and your readers are thinking on it…
“What is the purpose of Marriage?”
-Saifuddin
otowi said,
February 1, 2008 at 11:23 pm
I don’t care if they’re “ugly” I like Crocs.
And yes, don’t settle. I can tell you from experience, wait for the one that you just KNOW is right.
JDsg said,
February 2, 2008 at 3:46 am
Crocs are OK; Milady has asked me several times if I’d like to buy a pair. My feet, due to diabetes, need to be kept cool and dry, and the Crocs, while they do have all those holes, I don’t think are “holey” enough for my feet, so I refrain. But you do find some in the shoe racks here along with the much more ubiquitous sandals (80-90% of all shoes here).
izzymo said,
February 2, 2008 at 5:08 am
Otowi: Thanks for stopping by. They are confortable, I’ll give ya that. And they seem ideal for people who have to be on their feet all day–like nurses and hairdressers.
And thanks for the back up. I’ll say it again! DON’T SETTLE!!!
JDsg: Not “holey” enough huh? Hmm, well what kinda sandals do you wear? Strappy man sandals or slip on ones? Just curious?
Saifuddin: Walaikum salaam. The purpose of marriage? Well, I think marriage is worship of Allah. And it’s probably one of the few things in life that really test your metal as a mumin. If you want a successful marriage, you have to be compassionate, patient, tolerant and willing to overlook certain things. If done right, it can really tame your nafs. If done wrong, your nafs may get even more out of control. I also think the purpose of marriage is for other reasons like companionship and halal female/male relationships.
JDsg said,
February 2, 2008 at 7:41 am
BHPC #10016 with a color scheme that looks more like #10011 next to it. I’ve been wearing this brand for a few years now. Usually very comfortable except when you’ve been on your feet for several hours straight; then it starts to hurt like heck. Still, I’d be willing to buy more of these in the future.
Type 2 diabetics tend to get bacterial and fungal infections, especially on their feet and hands. Closed shoes (shoes with a toe) tend to keep the feet warm and moist, a perfect environment for bacteria and fungi to grow. Sandals keep the feet drier and cooler, which reduces the number of infections significantly. I have gotten very, very few infections on my feet since switching to sandals, so this is the only thing I’ll ever wear now. (My dad, who’s also a type 2 diabetic, also wears sandals for the same reason, every day, even during winter in NY.)
sincere said,
February 2, 2008 at 1:07 pm
ASA
I sooooo feel you on the marriage thing. I’m 35 and people keep asking me when am I getting married? When, when, when! And I tell them all when the time is right.
Yes we are encouraged to get married, but that doesn’t mean marry the 1st person you see. Through everything we still have to be compatible with people. I’ve seen sisters get married after a 20 minute sit down, what?! I’ve seen sisters marry brothers after a month of meeting someone. I’ve seen sisters get married during the Ramadan and Eid bliss, although they just met the brother a week ago. Then you look at the marriages 6 months down the road after the bliss has worn off, and reality kicks in, and so now they realize that they’ve married a stranger, and its time to get a divorce.
So i know exactly where you’re coming from. Like you I’m gonna wait until I feel I’ve found somebody that I feel I mesh with.
Peace
Tariq Nelson said,
February 2, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Excellent advice sister! This is all that I have been trying to say for some time now. But be prepared to be vilified for your opinion by thought reformists (who often benefit from this thinking) for not conforming to the hive-mind.
Repeat that advice to everyone you know. Then repeat it again. And one more time for good measure. DO NOT listen to the thought reform leaders who try to get you to hurry and marry some stranger.
anon said,
February 2, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Salaam,
But don’t you think you should be working to get married? Don’t you want to have children and companionship? I understand not marrying strangers but don’t let time pass you by, still put it out there that you want to be married. You have a good network here, there should be plenty of brothers who can be looking out for you if you put the word out.
The reality is that your youth is one of you biggest assets, the older you get it gets very hard for valid human reasons. Men are naturally attracted to youthful, fertile women. Its a normal, natural human inclination. I think to many women try to deny it to their detriment.
Dynamite Soul said,
February 2, 2008 at 6:36 pm
How cute. I think I might get a pair of crocs.
On to marriage. The expectations for Muslims in non-Muslim lands and UN-Islamic backgrounds should be a little different than those who grew up in Muslim families with fathers and uncles and brothers who will have your back. Here in the US people have learned to marry for their dreamy “ideas” of marriage rather than the “reality” of marriage. The reality is that Muslim brothers and sisters are more vulnerable because few of them have families who they can go to and seek council with. Add on the illogical expectations and blind eyes some members of the Muslim community possess and you have a disaster waiting to happen. Time after time we see unsuccessful marriages, yet we go about it the same way. There is something wrong, and no matter your age, you have to use your brain when choosing a mate.
To anon: Muslim men and women should not be scared into marriage either… There just might be a youthful woman who is barren, and there might be a widower who needs such a woman to take care of his several children!
izzymo said,
February 3, 2008 at 2:28 am
JDsg: Alhamdulillah, you’re living in a place where sandals are the norm. Now NY in the winter?
Sincere: Make dua, brother, she is coming. Allah didn’t intend for most of His creation to be alone. And you’ll know when it’s right. But constantly talk to Allah about it, especially when people start pressuring you to marry. After all, you are the one who has to live with her–not them! LOL!
Tariq: I just ignore them. I don’t even try arguing with them anymore. They have their opinions and I have mine. And they can throw those veiled threats of spinsterhood at me all they want. If I choose the wrong guy, if I wind up abused or neglected or dumped, will they come to my rescue? If we are horribly mix-matched, who will help us? If I stop working and then he leaves me with a mountain of bills, who will help me pay them? That’s when you’ll hear nothing but crickets!
Anon: I don’t think I gave the impression of avoiding marriage or not having a network of people trying to help me in that regard. As for men wanting youth, women have their standards, too. Just as some men want fertility, some women want virility. But as Dynamite pointed out, there are older people, widows, single older women and divorcees that are looking for marriage as well. I used to buy into the idea that if I passed a certain age, it was over for me. But the marriages in my community have proved that there’s life and marriage for Muslimas long after our supposed expiration dates.
Dynamite Soul: Thank you, thank you. I think some folks look at hooking up Muslims like this. “Just get married and insha’Allah, it will work! Dispense with all this ‘getting to them’ nonsense!” As Americans we are not like that. As Muslims, we are NOT commanded to be like that. What works in India or KSA may not work here and vice versa. There has got to be a happy medium between dating/fornication and stranger marriages. Oh, yeah! It’s called the SUNNAH!!!!! Oych!
JDsg said,
February 3, 2008 at 2:44 am
I agree with anon (#8). This was one of the reasons why I was more than happy to go overseas, because the negative attitude of many American women toward marriage made finding a spouse extremely difficult. Even the men at the local masjid were all muttering to themselves, “Where are the women we can marry?” (I know; I was contributing my 2 cents to that discussion as well.) These aren’t the days of the Roman men chasing after the Sabine women. Women have to actively get involved in finding their own spouse and, more importantly, be willing to accept someone who doesn’t conform to their ideal because we all have warts, men and women. Those who cling to the notion that they’ll find “Mr. Right” (or “Miss Right”) will become old and grey, whom everyone will pass by.
The right time is now!
Izzy Mo said,
February 3, 2008 at 6:51 am
Yes, yes, Brother JD, us American women are too plucky! LOL! This reminds me, I wanted to write an entry based on this conversation that I had with brother who was complaining about us Muslimas wanting to much money and mahr. I would love to hear your thoughts on that.
But seriously, I don’t think I’m waiting for Mr. Right. I’m waiting for Mr. “He’s a good Muslim with a kind heart who’s actually ready to get married and he can actually take care of a wife.” I would have to write a seperate entry on this. One guy was a known looney toon who tries to marry everybody. Another wanted me to move to Uganda (at my expensive, of course). Another one just got out of jail and he barely could make ends meet. Another was a recent convert who hadn’t fully gotten away from his hedonistic pre-Islamic lifestyle.
And personally, I don’t really go for the hulky type so it’s not like he has to have big muscles. I don’t believe he needs to make $60,000 a year because that’s just unrealistic. Personally, I believe in the qadr of Allah on this issue. I’ve attended marriage conventions and met with a few brothers. My sisters know I’m single and if they meet someone of know of someone, they’ll holla at me. It’s Allah’s will and it will happen when it’s ready to happen. That’s qadr–can’t speed it up or slow it down.
Dynamite Soul said,
February 3, 2008 at 8:58 am
And another thing…
Why the automatic assumption that sisters don’t look, or are waiting for a Prince in Shining armor?
Our story is being real and knowing that a job at Foot Locker wont pay the rent AND utility bills. Our story involves being realistic about life in America and what it takes to live. Just the bills. Can you pay the bills? It’s a man’s responsibility.
You can’t be trying to beat me lightly if the light bills aren’t paid! Pay the bills JD!
*snicker*
JDsg said,
February 3, 2008 at 10:16 am
Pay the bills JD!
I already have my own set of bills to pay, thank you very much!
Why the “assumption” that women don’t look? Roughly two-plus decades of observation and experience. A few women are proactive in looking for a spouse; the vast majority are not. Most would rather wait for the man to approach them. The most important aspect of a marriage is that the woman freely enters into the relationship; the one way to make sure that the woman wants to enter into a marriage without any compulsion whatsoever would be for her to ask him to marry her. How many couples have you known where that happened? I think I’ve met a grand total of two couples, in all my life. But you expect the man to ask the woman to marry her; men are expected to be proactive. (For the record, I asked Milady to marry me, although she approached me first.) If women really want to show that they’re not waiting for “a Prince in Shining Armor,” why don’t they bite the bullet and face the possible rejection by asking him to marry her?
In the meantime, why limit yourself to the Foot Locker employee types? There are plenty of men who have an education and a job that pays the bills who are single and available. (Once again, I speak from personal experience and observation of others.) The guys are there, but they’re being ignored.
JDsg said,
February 3, 2008 at 10:19 am
As for mahr, it depends on the country. Saudi Arabia? Absolutely. Too much money; women there deserve to find it difficult to get a husband for the amounts of money I’ve heard being asked for. South-east Asia? Much, much more reasonable.
YMMV.
anon said,
February 3, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Oh, sister, maybe I was projecting things that I have heard and dealt with other young muslimahs on to you. So many dont want to get married in their early twenties, they are basically succumbing to secular culture or too caught up in their studies and they dont realize that for most women, yes time is passing by. That is the qadr of Allah that most women have a limited window of fertility and most men would like to have children and a wife that is within that window. I do know that older women get married but why make it hard on yourself by prolonging it just to have more life experience. But that is obviously not your case. I cant imagine why you are not being approached by more decent men. That is a shame people would even bring those type of men to you, which makes me think that you can be more proactive in finding a mate. There are at least three bloggers/commenters (Tariq, Saifuddin, JDsg) I can think of that may have contacts for you. Ask them to help you find a husband. There is not shame in being more proactive. Thats really my point, not to put down older women but just to encourage young women don’t be scared of marriage, dont rush to marry a stranger but dont keep putting it off until your late twenties or thirties unnecessarily.
Aaminah said,
February 3, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Asalaamu alaikum.
“A few women are proactive in looking for a spouse; the vast majority are not.”
Maybe this is because if a woman tries to be proactive she gets two responses:
1) All the wack-a-doo “I just got out of jail/I just converted and need you to keep me on the deen/I can’t afford to even get an apartment but need halal sex” types come out
2) Everyone else treats you like a money-grubbing slut who is only looking for a man to pay the bills and have halal sex, which in their mind also means that you will cheat on him or divorce him at the first sign of something “better”.
It is not considered “polite” for a Muslim woman to be proactive or vocal in any way in looking for a husband. The community pushes you towards the worst men because they think you are not deserving of the good ones if you actually have a brain and speak up at all.
Besides which, I think that you can be balanced between actively looking and living your life and trusting Allah’s plan. There seems to be a misguided notion that a Muslim woman is nothing until she has a husband and children. Yet no one says that a Muslim man is nothing until he marries; it’s perfectly acceptable for him to be picky and downright unrealistic, perfectly normal for him to not be in a rush to settle down. But there is more to one’s life and deen than that. And in some cases, marrying too quickly can actually be detrimental to one’s deen, and most often it is the woman who suffers in this.
JDsg said,
February 4, 2008 at 5:32 am
Aaminah: Yes, I’m sure that your two types of responses do occur, but I’m fairly sure that they’re not the only two.
Not all brothers I met in the US were “wack-a-doo” nor thinking women were gold diggers. But my prior point had been that there’s a lot more single Muslim men around who are well educated, who do hold good-paying jobs; the male half of the American ummah isn’t composed solely of reformed gangbangers.
Aaminah said,
February 4, 2008 at 11:46 am
Asalaamu alaikum JD, I did not say that is the response from the men. I said that is the response from the community. Assertive women are treated like whores by the other women in the community. In fact, it is the other women who are biggest problem because they are the ones who bring around the crazy men who no one else will marry when they hear a convert sister is looking, and they are the ones who are quick to try to marry you off to just anyone so their own husband or son doesn’t get any ideas – women talk alot and I know this to be fact in too many cases. I know ALOT of Muslim mothers (not just immigrants either) who would rather that their son marry a young non-Muslim woman than to marry a convert who has a child, has ever been married, or is over the age of 25. I did not by any stretch say that all Muslim men in America are crazy, just-outta-jail brothers or that they think all sisters are gold-diggers. But I KNOW that in my own community there is a significant portion of the men who do not hold regular jobs and cannot support themselves much less a wife and children. I know that those same men are the ones who call me “damaged goods” because I have a child but often have several from previous marriages themselves. And I know that those same men are the ones who want to take me as a second (or third) wife but say it’s not the first one’s business what they are doing, and hope I don’t mind still paying all my own bills since I’m “independent anyway and used to it” and talk big about keeping me in line since my “independence” means I can’t be trusted either. Great wooing, huh? It’s true, there are alot of great Muslim men out there, educated, hard-working, etc. They are the ones who do not marry within the local community but find someone from elsewhere and bring her here (usually from overseas or through family connections, a sister who is relatively new here in the US). Educated, hard-working men typically don’t want a sister who has been married before, nor the headache of another man’s child. Alot of the local immigrants don’t want a non-white convert wife for the most part, but someone of their own culture and really, I don’t exactly blame them for that because they want someone their family will accept and that will cook the way they like, behave the way they are used to a woman behaving etc. But in my own community, yeah, a ridiculous proportion of the brothers ARE reformed gangbangers who haven’t reformed too far but use Islam to justify their behavior now. I’m telling you, as a sister who has had numerous proposals and is NOT a gold-digger by any means, it is much much harder to find the good brothers not because they don’t exist but because the minute you are assertive or “proactive” every sister is trying to set you up with the brother who no one else will have, and every bad-news brother starts harrassing you. I imagine that is actually a turn off to the good brothers too. I do know several really good single brothers too. But I’m not their type. They want someone of their own background (even the Black converts), they want to have children someday that I can’t give them, or they’ve met my last husband and it just feels weird to consider marrying a woman who has been married and when you like her ex.
In any case, you clearly missed my point which was that it IS the man’s job to be the one doing the wooing, not the other way around. It is considered highly innappropriate in most cultures for the woman to be “proactive” in seeking out her husband, and when one tries to do that, it is met with alot of resistance. As a man, and not living in the US, maybe you don’t realize what pressure you are putting on women when you say we have to be out there proactively looking. Maybe you don’t realize the reputation that gets a girl, and not just in my own community. I’m not suggesting that sisters should sit around the house waiting for someone to bring them the perfect man, because they will be disappointed if they do that. But what I am saying is live your life sisters and keep your eyes open. Do not go to the other extreme that makes you look desperate because people will take advantage of it. It is better to quietly let it be known amongst trusted friends or family that you are looking, and some idea of what you are looking for, so that introductions might be made. Pay attention to the brothers you run into at school or through work, and be willing to help set up another sister too if you can tell you and a particular brother wouldn’t be compatible.
AbuSinan said,
February 4, 2008 at 4:52 pm
JD,
From a cultural perspective many Muslim women would be horrified to be the one to pursue a man. My wife comes from the Middle East and thinks it more than a bit foward and improper for a woman to contact a man for marriage.
Having said that there are ways around that. If a sister finds a man she likes she could have a family member inquire about him as it was his idea, not hers.
As to the money issue, I think it is relevent. If a man expects to get married, have children, and be able to pay for it all, he had better be in a position to make enough money to do it. Let’s remember that a woman is NOT required to work in a marriage. If she does, any money she makes is HERS, unless she decides to pitch in, in such a case this is a charity to her husband.
Izzy mentioned $60,000 and not expecting a guy to make that much, I’ll tell you depending on where you live in the country it would be next to impossible to make $60,000 a year and support a wife and children. Here in the Metro DC where I live is one of those. It might sound crazy, but the county I live in considers a family with an income of $53,000 or less low income and then actually become eligible for housing assistance and the like. Yes, make over $50,000 a year here in the Metro DC area and you can still get low income housing.
If a man cannot support a wife and children, if he has to get food stamps, expect his wife to raise kids in a violence ridden slum, then he ought to consider waiting until his circumstances are better, or take a second job.
When I first got married I had a second job for 2 1/2 years. It sucked working 70 hours a week, but a man has to do what a man has to do. When I finished school I no longer needed to work a second job and now we are able to live just fine, even as we now have four children, and I am putting my wife through her Master’s program and she hasn’t had to work a day since we got married.
To the men out there, if you cannot support your wife or will make her take government assistance because you do not have the education or job to pay for her and any children, please do NOT get married until you are able to provide for your family as REQUIRED under Islamic law. Do NOT require her to work, you are going against the rules of Islam if you do. It is not fair to the wife to require this of her, and certainly not fair to the children who will have to go hungry and without.
Instead, put your energy towards getting a better job and more importantly go to school and get yourself a skill set that will allow you raise a family properly.
Off my soapbox now. BTW, anyone notice that most of the brothers looking for a second wife are the ones that cannot really support their first wife? Most of the brothers who have decent jobs, educations and can support their current wife arent interested in #2.
Aaminah said,
February 4, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Asalaamu alaikum.
I also wanted to say that it is absolutely not that I am anti-marriage and I 100% support Muslim men and know many wonderful spectacular Muslim men. As I said, this is a community issue, not just a man issue. I am speaking to what my experience “in the market” has been. It’s not been pretty. And it’s not only been local within my own community; in the past I also lived briefly in Hamtramck and my brother sought marriage partners for me in Hamtramck, Detroit, Ypsilanti and Ann Arbor. I have also done the internet way and talked with brothers all over the country. At one point I seriously considered being a second wife to a wonderful brother in California and was very comfortable and friendly with his first wife.
The thing is, I am totally willing to continue working and to pay half the expenses (i.e. half the rent/utilities) even though I know it is my right for my husband to pay those things. Because as AbuSinan says, it is really hard to provide, I don’t mind to put in a share. What I don’t like is the ASSUMPTION that I have to put in a share, or the fact that in several cases it would have still been me paying all of my own still. As a matter of fact, I just recently had an offer and his strategy was to tell me that he would “allow” me to keep working even though he doesn’t let his first wife and that he would “throw in a few dollars sometimes”. Another one that I have gotten more than once is “you and my first wife will share a house because I can’t pay two rents” – which I totally understand IS hard, but then maybe you shouldn’t take a second wife? In those cases I’ve also said “I need my own place, so I will pay all my own bills” and in one instance, the brother pitched a fit that I had to live under his roof – despite the fact that his first wife was terribly opposed to him taking another and personally despised me, or that there were several children involved and putting us all into one house was just not a good idea.
I’ve had to struggle to explain to my mother that it is NOT normal for a Muslim man to marry a woman and live off her. Because this is what my mom sees in our community. And as a non-Muslim, it’s hard for her to believe me when I say it is not the norm, not how it is elsewhere. Not that brothers have done that to me, alhamdulAllah, and I hope if I ever marry again, inshaAllah, that it is the kind of man I know exists out there that opens my parents’ eyes to the real beauty of Islam.
At the same time, I’m not worried about getting married again. Being a wife is not the sum total of my existance, and I think it is sad when we act like women are less-than because they aren’t married. We have these great gifts given to us by Allah that we want to use in His service. Marriage will come in His time, but until then there is so much we can do and be. Marriage is meant to be about having someone who pushes you in your deen in a good way, having support. But the wrong marriage is an iman-drainer, and I truly believe it is better to have high iman while single than to be married and with low iman. Allahu alim.
musulmana said,
February 4, 2008 at 6:41 pm
assalamu aliekum wa rahmatulahi wa barakatuhu,
I agree with Abu Sinan. The cost of living is high and brothers need to prepare themselves for good jobs. Also, it is just wrong when brothers get a second wife when their first wife has to work! Ridiculous. Some of these sisters don’t mind doing it because THEY DON’T HAVE CHILDREN YET. I used to work but I enjoy not working now that I have young children. I was able to rest when I felt ill from pregnancy, and breastfeed on demand, pick-up my kids from school, etc. Yes, it is a luxury, but one that has made me extremely grateful for my husband every day of my life. I appreciate him so much just because he would never expect me to bring income into the house (among other things of course-LOL). Even when I worked, I did what I wanted with my money, and he encouraged me to spend on my family.
No matter what stupid little disagreements you can have with your spouse, when a man truly takes care of you, it solidifies your relationship.
There are few cases where a man stays home and a woman brings home the income that are actually successful. It would entail the man doing a lot of chores in the house, which is usually not the case. Whatever, the case, there should be equal division of work. Some women bring home income and then are expected to take care of the kids and do all the housework. That’s 2 jobs. While a man comes home and feels that it is his turn to be “nurtured”, the woman is still working when she gets home. These relationships also are in peril, IMHO. It creates a lot of stress on the woman and she begins to see that she doesn’t need her husband for anything, ‘cuz she can bring home the halal bacon and fry it up too, and then clean up after herself… So brothers, it is important.
Brothers should focus on getting a good education or working hard and living frugally (there’s nothing wrong with that). That, coupled with following Islam, being kind and patient with others ( not just with women) makes a really great catch (and not necessarily in that order!)
musulmana said,
February 4, 2008 at 6:44 pm
by “encourgaed me to spend on m y family” I mean, my parents and the like, not in the household. But Alhamdulillah, his father took care to provide him the best education since he was very young, and he expects to do the same for our kids.
working said,
February 5, 2008 at 8:33 am
Yeah, I don’t think of $60,000 as unrealistic at all. I also don’t think it’s right to chastise women for pursuing their own educations and marrying later in their 20s or whatever so that we better our community as a whole. Perhaps the sisters can serve as an example to the brothers in this regard!
Ann said,
February 5, 2008 at 8:56 am
Assalaamu alaikum,
This demonstrates how different our situation is from that of the Sunnah. Both women and men married young, and it was easy for them; if they divorced, it didn’t ruin their reputation and they could easily remarry. Except for Aisha (ra), all of the Prophet’s (pbuh) wives had been married previously. Now we’ve made the halal difficult and the haram easy.
As for JD’s suggestion that women be pro-active… in a Muslim community, that doesn’t necessarily mean that she’s advertising herself. Her relatives make it known that she’s looking, and they look around for her. (Actually, no one really has to make it known; once the woman is of a certain age – the age varies from one place to another – she will be considered eligible.) At any wedding or other party for women, or in the workplace, there will be women looking around for someone for their sons or brothers, asking who this one is and whether she’s married, etc.
Often in Muslim countries, a man can get married before he’s actually able to support a family himself, because he can live with his family. I’m certainly not advocating that women marry someone who’s not able to support his family, but waiting until he’s much older to marry is not a good thing either. Even in some Muslim countries, this is the case; the man cannot marry until he can get and furnish an apartment and buy x, y, and z, etc., and so men are waiting until they’re in their late 30s, for example… and what do they do with their physical needs during that time?
I also think there’s a balance between being too picky and marrying some schmuck without knowing anything about them. Of course, this is easier if the woman (or man) has someone who can thoroughly check out the potential spouse. The Prophet (pbuh) said: “When someone with whose religion and character you are satisfied asks your daughter in marriage, accede to his request. If you do not do so, there will be temptation on Earth and extensive corruption.”
Aaminah said,
February 5, 2008 at 11:38 am
Asalaamu alaikum.
$60,000 varies in different locales. Where I live, teachers do not make $60,000. There are many many legitimate hard-working men who are never gonna make $60,000 a year and that doesn’t mean they should never get married.
Ann, I totally get what you’re talking about and agree with it, but you have the assumption that the woman has family to help her in this regard. I am surprised since you are a convert yourself, but I realize your experience is colored by living in Kuwait for so long. It’s not like that here in the U.S. It’s just not. And because it’s not, we have to work within the framework of how it is. Yes, the Sunnah needs to be put into effect more. And I do believe in young marriage too. But it isn’t always possible and as long as we have all the illnesses in our communities here that we have, young marriage doesn’t work like it’s supposed to either.
working said,
February 5, 2008 at 5:33 pm
I wasn’t saying that an income of $60,000 means that someone shouldn’t get married, but that it’s not an unrealistic expectation for someone to have. It’s not like saying at all potentials should make $1,000,000 or something.
Aaminah said,
February 5, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Asalaamu alaikum.
Well, but I’m saying in certain locales $60,000 IS unrealistic. You can’t jump from $60,000 to $1,000,000.00 and call that a comparison. If I hold out for a $60,000 a year brother, I will most certainly never marry again because that just isn’t very likely to be found.
working said,
February 5, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Well, I guess it all depends on what you are looking for.
Aaminah said,
February 5, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Asalaamu alaikum.
Well, for one, I am looking for a brother who actually lives Islam. And I personally don’t know any who make $60,000 locally except the ones who make it in haram ways. I’m sure there are exceptions I don’t know about, but they are probably already married.
I won’t take a brother who doesn’t work or who thinks selling oils on the streetcorner counts as a job. But in our current local economy, I’d be mighty hard-pressed to find a non-Muslim husband who made $60,000! I would be happy with a brother who can pay half the rent/utiltities/groceries and takes care of his own car note and insurance, inshaAllah. Who doesn’t ask me for money all the time. It doesn’t take $60,000 a year to do that, though it sure would be nice.
And to be fair, this discussion doesn’t even touch on the other things that factor into our choices. Like wanting a spouse who follows the same interpretation of Islam as you do (i.e., if you follow a madhab, you probably don’t want a Salafi spouse, or Sunnis don’t marry Shi’as typically, etc.). For example, I recently had some small discussion with a local brother (who amazingly made more than $60,000 a year, I think, LOL) from Kuwait. He was a widower and a bit older than me, so okay, looks perfect: won’t mind that I can’t have more kids maybe etc. He thought it was cool that I work but would support me to be able to find the non-profit/community work that I really love but that doesn’t pay much, he thought it awesome that I was a writer. But the minute I mentioned that I follow the guidance of a shaykh… well, I never heard from him again. Maybe that wasn’t why… maybe he’s just so busy, maybe he lost my email and my number, maybe he hasn’t been to the masjid to connect with my brother (afterall, he does travel to the UK alot). But maybe, probably, it is more likely that when he knew just what I practice as a Muslim he felt it was just too different from him. Probably he’s a great guy (he seemed it), probably we could have made a go of it and worked through those differences. But I wasn’t what he was looking for, so alhamdulAllah.
Ann said,
February 5, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Assalaamu alaikum,
Aaminah, I think we’re in agreement… I meant that in Muslim countries, the woman doesn’t have to go and advertise herself; she has her family to help. For myself, I was about 34 and unmarried when I became Muslim, so people naturally assumed I wanted to marry. Alhamdulillah, because they were my friends and co-workers, no one tried to dump some loser on me or pressure me to marry right away. (They did tell me I was being too picky when I insisted on someone who doesn’t smoke, lol.)
P.S. If you’re serious about anyone from Kuwait, let me know and I can have my husband ask around about him before you make a final decision, just to make sure that what he’s telling you about himself is accurate. (That goes for Izzy Mo or anyone else reading this, too.)
Aaminah said,
February 5, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Asalaamu alaikum.
Thanks Ann. For myself though, most likely if I ever remarry (and really, I’m in no rush) it will probably be someone that my shaykh suggests to me, most likely someone who follows him as well, inshaAllah.
I didn’t say it before, but wanted to clarify that here in the US, when a sister (maybe even esp a convert) gets “proactive” about looking for a spouse she is often branded as too forward, not submissive enough etc. – even by fellow converts. Because the general thinking (at least what I have personally witnessed and heard alot of others talk about – I know there are exceptions)is that we are supposed to accept whatever guy is presented to us first, not ask questions, not get involved in the search. Whenever I am looking I am told by everyone not to ask questions. Well, most of you are familiar with my list of interview questions, LOL. But there is this attitude that the men don’t have to tell you anything except that they pray and work. I want to know more about a brother before I commit my life to him. So I have questions. And even those who “appear” legit are completely spazzed that I would dare to ask anything.
working said,
February 5, 2008 at 9:32 pm
I think we must live in vastly different communities! I have lived in several communities and have never experienced such a thing – it makes me feel sad for the ummah since that is not the intent. I know when it was my time I “rejected” a bunch of guys and took my time in my choice. I asked a lot of questions and (to my knowledge) my friends did as well. We all are educated people and wanted the same in a spouse in addition to the other obvious characteristics of religious and personality compatibility. Maybe you should move
Ginny said,
February 6, 2008 at 12:35 am
Assalamu alaikum, well, I’ve seen more of what Aaminah is talking about, or worse yet, it seemed people just assumed that I’d not get married! Perhaps it was the blidn thing, I don’t know. Because I’d mention that I’d want to get married, and I’d get the “inshallah” response and that would be it. I almost felt like I had to fend for myself regarding that and we all know that can’t be good.
Anyway, alhamdulillah, I found my husband the way that I did, and here I am, and I don’t think I could have asked for anything more.
JDsg said,
February 6, 2008 at 2:13 am
…we are supposed to accept whatever guy is presented to us first, not ask questions, not get involved in the search. Whenever I am looking I am told by everyone not to ask questions.
It sounds like you’re being fed a line. In the six months or so that Milady and I got to know one another before our marriage, I never got the impression she was holding back on asking me any questions (and that attitude hasn’t changed in our five years of marriage). (*Gasp!* Does that mean I married a feminist?
) Likewise, I’ve never heard anyone, man or woman, tell another woman that she shouldn’t ask any questions. Perhaps working’s suggestion about moving is correct. 
Aaminah said,
February 6, 2008 at 11:29 am
Asalaamu alaikum.
Yeah, sure… just move. That’s another thing that is WRONG with American thinking. The constant insistence that a Muslim woman has to move to find a man. Why should I uproot myself from my family ties, my community work, everything I hold familiar JUST TO FIND A HUSBAND? Sorry, I did that once… I married a man from across the country and left a good job and took my son down to live with that man. A Muslim man. A community leader. I stayed there for about 3 days. Because alot of what he had told me was a lie (and yes, I did have people check him out), because it was not a good situation. When I returned to my family, not only was I shamed in front of my non-Muslim family who said “we told you so” but I couldn’t find work again and when I did it was minus the health insurance and with a significant pay cut. To raise my son alone on. Let me say, in all my 10 years of being Muslim and talking marriage with brothers all over this country, IT IS ALL THE SAME. This isn’t just an issue in my own community. Brothers and sisters I’ve talked to in Tennessee, California, Florida, Chicago, Texas, Arizona, etc. all were the same: marry quick and accept Allah’s decree, it’s none of your business what your husband does as long as he pays the rent somehow, and you don’t need to know anything about if your personalities will mesh. With a healthy dose of “you’re a divorcee with a child who can’t have more, you should be glad a man will marry you as a second wife. You can help with his first wife’s kids!” And in ALL of my experience (i.e. I speak only for myself and recognize others have had a different experience) NOT ONCE was a man willing to move to be in my community, to allow me to stay by my family and keep my job and community committments. Maybe, just maybe, the problem isn’t that I need to uproot myself and move, but maybe the solution is that I don’t really NEED a husband right now. Oh, my bad, women are supposed to throw everything to the wind for a man… which is exactly why so many end up in all the bad situations talked about.
working said,
February 6, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Aaminah, Ginny, I’m really sorry that you have had such negative experiences with people. You know how John Edwards talks about two Americas? It seems that there are two Muslim communities as well. And honestly, I’m glad not to be in one that values women so little that they aren’t to care about what their husband does or if personalities mesh.
anon said,
February 6, 2008 at 5:45 pm
working, this is just normal issues with class that occurs everywhere in the world. Also with the fact that American Muslims are just growing into Islam. Immigrants from overseas do not care about convert women, I wish people would wake up. The vast majority just want to be in their own communities and marry within. Its what they have done for thousands of years, why would they change now. Why would we expect them to change. I mean half of the marriages in the middle east and Pakistan are between cousins, so they don’t even marry outside of their family. So why would be we expect them to be jumping to help a non-family member who is not from their ethnic group and not even raised Muslim. They are not interested. Which is why American Muslims need to get it together and start being more proactive in dealing with marriage here in our milieu.
The class issue, outside of the very educated like you working, most women are expected to just marry anybody. I think that is why Aaminah is having so many problems. In a situation where a women has been married before and has children, she is expected to just take what ever comes her way, not complain or just be content to never marry again. That is how it is throughout the overwhelming majority of the world. We as Americans expect more out of marriage and this makes it very hard for women here who convert at an older age or are divorced, etc.
Which is going back to my point before, young American Muslim women should not put off marriage for no reason. Its a fact, its gets very difficult to get married the older you are. And sister Aaminah, its easy for you to say don’t worry about getting married, you have already experienced it. I think its bad advice to give a young woman who wants to eventually have a family and get married, she only has so much time. Its the qadr of Allah, how can we get angry about it, its just life, women should get married as early as they can when they meet the right person. Men have time just due to simple biology, they shouldn’t wait either but they don’t have the biological clock ticking like women. Plus men are more attractive and have more options for marriage when they are older, women don’t. Thats just life. Women are denying reality to their detriment.
Aaminah said,
February 6, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Asalaamu alaikum Anon,
“And sister Aaminah, its easy for you to say don’t worry about getting married, you have already experienced it. I think its bad advice to give a young woman who wants to eventually have a family and get married, she only has so much time. Its the qadr of Allah, how can we get angry about it, its just life, women should get married as early as they can when they meet the right person.”
Don’t misquote me to prove your point. I didn’t say sisters shouldn’t worry about getting married, I said that shouldn’t be their only concern in life and they shouldn’t be desperate and make desperate decisions. The key is “when they meet the right person”. The reality is that women aren’t given the chance to find the “right person” in our society because we push even young women to accept the first offer without questions, to deny their own needs, to be paranoid that they will never marry if they don’t do so right away. It’s just not true. There are brothers who will marry older women, and I’m sorry but at 33 I don’t think I even qualify as an older woman. I happen to have specific health issues that preclude me from having more children, but there is no reason for the average 33 year old woman to be paranoid that she isn’t going to be able to get married and have a family still.
It IS the Qadr of Allah whether we will marry, whether we will have children, etc. So it is ridiculous for us to tell women that it is either one way or the other. I have had two surgeries that ensure I will never get pregnant again. But if it were the Qadr of Allah for me to get pregnant, it would happen despite anything else. I believe that. So I also believe that it is the Qadr of Allah when you meet the “right one” and it’s the Qadr of Allah what age you happen to be when that happens.
Sisters need to focus on their own deen and preparing for the eventuality of being a wife and mother – which means they need to know their responsibilities and rights in both of those roles. They need to be educated to educate their children. They need to be prepared for the possibility that they may need to support themselves, their parents, their husband in the event of illness or an accident, and their children in this society that we live in. And in the process of being prepared and educated about all those things, they should be prepared to MAKE ISTIKARA and seek out the necessary assistance and support when searching for a husband. They should not be stressing on accepting just anything no questions asked nor stressing that they only have so much time – because that time is entirely up to Allah subhana wa ta’Allah and you and I don’t know what it is.
Aaminah said,
February 6, 2008 at 7:36 pm
AA – I also don’t feel, in my experience, that the immigrant community is any more insular or unwilling to help convert women than fellow converts are. Immigrant or convert, all Muslims in America are Muslim Americans, navigating this society and trying to create community here. No particular group bears the burden of being the “bad guys”. We’ve all got our issues and hang-ups, and while the particulars may differ, in my experience we are all equally to blame and equally a blessing to each other.
Despite what I may say about marriage opportunities in my community, it keeps being forgotten that I have clarified over and over it isn’t just my own local community that I’ve dealt with this matter on. And despite the marriage issues in my community, there are ALOT of other wonderful things about my community, sisters I love, brothers who have been very kind and helpful, opportunities that we have tried to implement for the betterment of our community, alhamdulAllah.
working said,
February 6, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Anon, I see what you’re saying about it being a class issue. I didn’t mean to come off like a snob though so I am sorry about that.
UmmFarouq said,
February 9, 2008 at 7:43 am
Just went to a wedding last night; the brother waited till almost age 45, the woman is 32, was married 12 years, and this is her second marriage, and this is here in the M.East. I had a hard time wiping the smile off of my face, because it was just SO GOOD to see this happening.