Successful Black Woman Syndrome
According to the society watchers and commentators, Oprah has it. Condi Rice has it. Even you or I, dear readers, may have it. Brother Tariq Nelson has written some sobering articles about the marital structure of the African-American Muslim community. I haven't been "in the community" that long to confirm anything, but as marriage and family become more passe, we may began to see the ugly rise of divorce in the American Muslim umma. After all, it would be silly to think that we are immune to the same social problems as everyone else. But getting back to SBW…
There's a growing number of African-American women pursuing college degrees and becoming career women and/or self-employed women. Statistically, the same has not been true for African-American men. There's a myriad of reasons for this but I believe that it's slowly becoming easier to be a Black woman than it is to be a Black man in this country. No matter what people thought about me in my bare-headed days, no one ever treated me with the fear that I would rob, rape or murder them. For many African-American men, that perception shapes their reality as they are out in the world trying to make a decent living. And with the rising success of African American women in various fields, this may create tension between couples where the male is not fully comfortable with the female as being a sole breadwinner or the one who brings home most of the bacon. And we all know how some forms of feminism create distance and competition between men and women instead of nuturing cooperation and teamwork.
So here's the scenario of a single successful Black woman. She goes to college and does pretty well, gets a job where she rises up the corporate ladder. While succeeding financially, she's looking for a mate who shares her similar interests, outlook on life and ambition. Unfortunately, for her age bracket (25-35), the men may only be interested in playing the field. These men may not be ready to settle down so she finds herself successful but alone. It doesn't necessary mean depression and spinsterhood but over time, she becomes comfortable with being alone. By the time some men in her community are ready to get married, she's not interested. She already has her life together and she's financially stable. Furthermore, with out-of-wedlock births representing 35%, she may not want to deal with a man who has children for other women. While she would enjoy the benefits of marriage, she's not willing to deal with jilted ex-girlfriends from the past and their children. You know, baby mama drama. She has some options. If all people involved are mature enough, she may marry her love and accept his children. If she can't, she may choose to marry outside of her race but risk being branded a race traitor (especially, if he's white) and he may or may not have baby mama drama as well. In theory, as far as the Muslim community is concerned, race shouldn't matter but I think we all have some stories about how that doesn't always work like that.
While reading Brother Tariq thoughts, I found this article and it's pretty scary.
Marriage is for white people, by Joy Jones.
"Marriage is for white people."
That's what one of my students told me some years back when I taught a career exploration class for sixth-graders at an elementary school in Southeast Washington. I was pleasantly surprised when the boys in the class stated that being a good father was a very important goal to them, more meaningful than making money or having a fancy title. "That's wonderful!" I told my class. "I think I'll invite some couples in to talk about being married and rearing children." "Oh, no," objected one student. "We're not interested in the part about marriage. Only about how to be good fathers."
Uh, when did this happen? Did I miss something? Am I really out of the loop? I can't even wrap my brain around this. When did marriage become so despised, especially since some of us pride ourselves on being "conservative"? No, no! I'm in the denial. I need to do further research on this. Is it the gansta culture, the pimp culture, where women are seen as sexual conquests rather than life partners? After all, you can count the number of rap songs on one hand that extol the virtues of marriage, companionship and fidelity. Is it the jaded opinion of youth who see the high rates of divorce and think, "What's the point? Marriages don't last anyway"? And how will this affect the Muslim community where we have so many other problems?
In light of all this stuff, as potential syndrome sufferer, I've been told that I should…what's the word…settle. I shouldn't try to find a brother that I think I could have a successful marriage with but just find someone…period. Just get married because you're not getting any younger. I think this mentality alone can cause young single Muslims to make big mistakes. There's really no good in scaring sisters into marriage and threatening them with spinsterhood. Someone pointed out my high standards which are: a brother who prays and practices Islam, a well-adjusted person (I'm loony enough for everyone) and suitable income. I'm not into the "he has to be a doctor-lawyer-engineer-rich dude" stuff. But I guess I'm just stuck up. It's okay if some brother demands a virgin or sister with no kids but I can't say I want to marry a brother who makes prayer and fasting a priority. @@
Man, these issues would take many entries and I wanted to get some other stuff in on the blog. It's just too much. But what can we offer as a solution to this situation? Whether people like it or not, marriage is a pillar of a strong society and a strong family. And if you have sound marriages, you have sound families and sound communities. But the situation is everything but sound. And what should an African-American Muslima do when she's being told to "dumb it down" or "hide her knowledge" because some men may be threatened? Doesn't that display a low opinion of our brothers that they aren't secure enough or Sunnah enough to handle a successful, educated sister? And if she marries a Muslim outside of her race, can still address her community's issues without losing credibility or being branded as someone who has abandoned her people (even when there's silence when brothers do the same thing)?
Danya said,
April 10, 2006 at 10:38 pm
Ah, it really is a problem! I have noticed that African American sisters have a harder time finding someone to marry. I see with my own eyes and hear it from their mouths.
I kind of think it’s ironic that although talk about marriage is so widespread, it’s kind of a taboo topic for sisters. Sisters who talk about marriage are seen as desperate. It’s like “shsshshsh don’t talk about that in front of people.” I think that’s one problem. Sisters should state what they want in a husband loud and proud without one censorship.
Just my two cents
Umar Lee said,
April 11, 2006 at 12:19 am
for one thing most sunni brothers who are african-american, or those brothers who seek to follow the sunnah outside of the WD community, for the most part dont want to marry african-americn sisters. soemtimes they wll marry one just to be doing somethign until they can find a Moroccan or another kind of immigrant girl or one from “back home”.
These brothers are all geeked up about marrying a virgin, and the Arab brothers tell them they must marry virgins, even though they themselves have been getting some since they were like 12 and got like 3 or 4 baby mammas of kids they wouldnt recognize of they saw them on a billboard. or maybe not, and maybe they stll got baby mamma drma, but they want a good arab Muslim virgin they can “break in”.
The African-American sister gets no repect in the community.
izzymo said,
April 11, 2006 at 1:32 am
Salaamz folks
Danya,
it’s sad but true. I think only white converts have it worse. Or…I guess we all have our hurdles. I think Black sisters are seen as undesirable for wives while White brothers are viewed with mistrust. It’s all very anti-Sunnah behavior. Now, where I live, marriage is the talk of the day! But only for married woman, so like you said, single folks can’t be clear about what they want in a partner or admit that they want a partner in the first place.
Umar Lee,
I didn’t know it was that bad. But how do the wives feel about them having children outside of wedlock and then demanding that they be chaste? And from what I heard, Black brothers have a hard time getting married to sisters of other races because of the prejudice against Blacks in general. I keep thinking about Zora Neale Hurston and her quote. “Black women are the mules of the world.”
JD said,
April 11, 2006 at 2:59 am
Wa ‘alaikum salaamz.
IM wrote: “While reading Brother Tariq thoughts…”
At first I thought you were referring to me (JD, aka Tariq Muhammad), but I realized it had to be someone else.
“White brothers are viewed with mistrust.”
Now this is one I hadn’t heard. Pray tell, in what way are we viewed with “mistrust?”
izzymo said,
April 11, 2006 at 3:10 am
Salaamz JD,
You know how some white Muslims are viewed as being Muslim only because they fell in love with an Arab or South Asian? Often times, some people can’t believe that a white person can become Muslim of his/her own will. It has to be beause he/she dated a native born Muslim, not because of faith. Some people go as far as to say that white Muslims are just trying to marry “our daughters.” @@ It’s all very, VERY silly. Or they don’t think that white Muslims are born into the faith but they are almost exclusively converts.
Wait…where does JD come from? Tariq Muhammad is your Muslim name and JD is your nickname?
Um Abdullah said,
April 11, 2006 at 3:39 am
I was going to post some of what you wrote as a comment in your previous post about the state of Black men in America.
The marriage issue for African Ameican women is really tough. I went to school with several African American Muslim women and men. The majority of the men married non Muslims. And many, if not most of the AFrican American women either married someone who didnt finish college or earns less than them or they are still not married still 10 years out of college. Its very tough for sisters. I have noticed that a lot of sisters are starting to marry Africans which I hope more sisters look into marrying outside of our community just because who wants to be alone for the rest of your life.
Also wanted to say that there is nothing wrong in marrying “down” as they say but it can cause problems in the Muslim household if the woman expects a certain lifestyle and the husband cant provide.Or the can brother feel insecure if the wife has more knowledge then him. It takes a confindent brother to really handle it.
So its not just in here that all the brothers are marrying Morroccans. Its like its all the rage here to marry a Morroccan sister. How do they even meet them? But alot of those marriages have problems cause the Arab sisters come here thinking that they are going to live hollywood American lifestyles and many of those brothers are struggling or are stricter than what the Arab sister is used to and I dont think they realize what its like to deal with the racism that African Americans deal with.
Izzy: African American brothers only have problems marrying into middle class immigrant families established in America. There is not problem with them finding someone who lives overseas in a relatively poorer nation to marry their daughter off to an African American. That sounds bad but thats what it is, it seems that being American trumps being black in those situations.
Anyway, I really wish Imam Zaid or somebody would take this issue up because I am really seeing a decline in the family life with African American Muslims. We are going to lose a generation a Muslim children if the adults don’t start getting it together.
Um Abdullah said,
April 11, 2006 at 3:58 am
I just finished reading all your post. Girl you don’t have to settle for just anyone. I don’t think you will have a problem getting married because you seem to be open to Non-African Americans, you are young and outgoing. So I really doubt you will have a problem, Allahu Alim. Maybe what they mean is that you should not have a long laundry list of items that have to be met. One should always be flexible but you should know what you can and cannot tolerate. Like I knew I had to be married to someone who was a sincere Muslim not just superficial wearing a thobe but Islam was not in his heart. Someone I could really be friends with and who would put family first, I didn’t care about money so much. Alhumdulilah my husband is my best friend and a great father even though on paper some people would say I should not have married him because he didnt finish college or whatever
Some women just want to marry someone who makes a certain amount of money or has a certain profession but may not care about spending time with his family or kids. Obviously we should marry for deen but that means different things to different people. So really do some introspection and decide what are the deal breakers for you.
And like Danya said don’t be afraid to just say you want to get married. Start networking and of course first and foremost ask Allah to send you a good brother.
JD said,
April 11, 2006 at 4:37 am
IM wrote: “Wait…where does JD come from?”
Send me an e-mail, and I’ll tell you.
ummali said,
April 11, 2006 at 5:03 am
Sigh. I hear you. For some reason “the brothahs” weren’t interested in me. Well, ok I know the reason. Where I was they were obsessed with “light skinded-ed-ed” (to quote Izzy herself) sistahs, and I look more like Lauryn Hill than Beyonce. I remember I talked to this one brother on the phone and then when we finally met he said “oh, you aren’t what I was expecting at all, I thought you’d be petite and light skined.”
Then, when I became shi’a, it was ALL over. I always joke that there are about 10 af. american shi’a and I know all of them. So, I pretty much had to be open to people outside of the Af. American community or end up in some broke dude’s harem.
ummali said,
April 11, 2006 at 5:04 am
well, lemme not make it look bad. my husband is fantabulous, so i didn’t miss out on anything.
Abu Sinan said,
April 11, 2006 at 10:55 am
Izzy,
I think there are several things going on here. I have sensed, as a white Muslim, some distrust, but for me most of it comes from African Americans. I dont get that much from “born” Muslims, except when they think I worked for the CIA because I speak Arabic.
I have talked to some African American brothers and they have told me that some African American brothers have come to mainstream Islam from “the nation” and still view whites in that vein. They havent completely gotten over the idea that us white people are not the devil.
Another question, why does a black woman marrying a white guy make her a “race traitor”? Black men have been doing it for decades, yet there seems to be a bigger issue when black women do the same thing.
Umar Lee said,
April 11, 2006 at 1:52 pm
There are a few issues here;
-Black men who are into the sunnah and frequesnt thsoe masjids mostly seek ti marry immirgant women or women from back home and I know of dozens of such amrriage that are msotly with Moroccans. Other brothers who are not as heavy into the sunnah will often marry non-Muslims.
-Abu Sinan you have to ralize that many black men seek to marry non-blacks for psychlgical reaons because they view an Arab wife or wahat not as a status symbol. There arent that many non-black Muslism who want to amrry black Muslim women, for whatever reson, so this issue becomes a very serious for black women in finding a spouse.
-Distrust for the white Muslim man, from a sisters viewpoint may have to do with falling in love with an arab or south asian girl, but amonsgt the brothers it is the suspicion of being the CIA, FBI or the like.
Izzy Mo- Of these sisters are coming from third-world countries and from extreme poverty they could care less if eh ahs a hundred kids as long as he is taking care of ehr and ehr children
Izzy Mo said,
April 11, 2006 at 3:38 pm
Walaikum salaam folks,
Um Abdullah: You went to an Islamic school and they married non-Muslims? I wonder why, I mean it’s not as if there isn’t plenty of available Muslim women. But if a Muslima marries a Jew or Christian, they get angry. Insha’Allah, some of our brothers won’t feel insecure about educated women. I just read a great novel where a African-American sister tells her White Muslim fiancee that she wants to get a college degree as a form of dowry. It’s was so sweet and I have to write a review on it. Those kind of marriages between different cultures, rather than different races but same American culture, can be difficult. More power to ‘em. And I agree, Imam Zaid would be the perfect person to bring this up to a national level, and even Imam Siraj Wahhaj, unless they have already addressed it. Thank you for your good advice. I’m reflexible when it comes down to children from another marriage or relationship but the ones that scare me are the guys who have three or four kids for three or four different women.
Umar Lee said,
April 11, 2006 at 3:46 pm
Imam Siraj addresses this issue at least a few times a month at the masjid.
Izzy Mo said,
April 11, 2006 at 3:47 pm
JD, I’m emailing ya when I can!
Umm Ali,
“Then, when I became shi’a, it was ALL over. I always joke that there are about 10 af. american shi’a and I know all of them. So, I pretty much had to be open to people outside of the Af. American community or end up in some broke dude’s harem.”
ROFL!!!!!!!! Girl, maybe you can write a book on African-American Shi’a Muslims since there isn’t a lot of information on this group. And if it is as small as you say, then you don’t have to go too far to do the research.
And last time I checked Laura Hill was gorgeous but some people have issues with dark skin no matter how beautiful you are. In high school, I often got the feeling that the only reason why a guy was interested in me is only because of my light skin. Forget if I have any character, personality, manners or a sense of humor. But alhamdulillah, your husband sounds like a good guy and you followed your heart so that’s what matters.
Abu Sinan said,
April 11, 2006 at 3:59 pm
I wanted to marry an Arab, for several reasons. None of them had to do with status. I wanted to be able to speak Arabic, and having a spouse who speaks fluent Arabic certainly helps with this. I also wanted to find someone who was firmly rooted in their deen. I have enough on my hands learning myself, it makes it easier to have a spouse you can turn to for information rather someone who might know even less than you.
As to status symbols. This is kind of a sad state of affairs. It might be a status symbol for some to marry Moroccans or what have you, but outside of these people’s circle it is not viewed as such. Rightly or wrongly, women from some countries in North Africa have kind of gotten a bad reputation for things like this, and other things. This is in the Arab community anyways. Marrying someone based on their nationality or race is stupid. Kind of like the same black men marrying white women because they want a white woman, no matter how ugly, and no matter how many beautiful black women there are out there.
The “status” thing can work both ways. Being married to a Saudi female I have found that many Arab males I have met have a hard time either believing that I really am married to a Saudi woman(should I carry a copy of her Saudi passport), or then feeling rejected because a Saudi woman would really pick a Westerner to marry. I actually heard one guy say as much in Arabic. He said “I know Maghrebia (women from north Africa) marry Americans, but a Saudi woman? Why?” He was a bit embarrassed when I walked up to him and his friends and said “Ana atkalam Arabiya, Shukran”(I speak Arabic, thank you). I thought about explaining to them, in Arabic, exactly why so many Arab women, even the more “prestigious” women of the Gulf countries are marrying non Arab men, but decided against it.
They better get used to it, more and more of “their women” are doing it now.
As to the spy thing, I have gotten that all of the time. Some of it has to do with the fact that I speak a Saudi dialect of Arabic. If I spoke with a Musry(eGyptian) or Lebanese accent they might be less inclined to think I am a spy, versus married to an Egyptian, Lebanese, Palestinian, but when you come out with Hijazi, or another Saudi accent, they never assume you are married to a Saudi, rather you trained in Saudi with the CIA, Saudi intelligence ect.
But it is hard to hide where you learned your Arabic because it is so regional. If you learn in a classroom you’ll have a very hard time understanding people on a day to day basis and it will also be clear to others that your Arabic comes straight from a classroom and a text book. Kind of like someone learning English by reading Shakespear and trying to converse with the average American in that type of language.
Izzy Mo said,
April 11, 2006 at 4:02 pm
Abu Sinan: Really? You would have been welcomed at my mosque back in NOLA. But I see what you mean, especially the whole CIA covert thing. With the former NOI folks, you may get that, but I think the younger ones wouldn’t be bothered. And there’s still this idea of people becoming Muslim because they are getting in touch with their African roots so I guess seeing a White Muslim messes up their fantasy of the “perfect black religion.” Black Nationalism is still there in all of it’s various strains. As to why Black women would be seen as a race traitor by some is complex. I think in many ethnic groups, there’s the idea of women as being the preservers of culture and authencity so going to the “other side” is seen as racial treason. There’s the whole slavery issue and the sexual dynamic between White men and Black women. Or it could be just plain old jealousy but I’ve noticed that when Black men marry or date White women, there’s more acceptance of it. I personally don’t get bothered by it and I don’t understand why the reverse is treated differently. Marrying a Latino or Arab or South Asian may get some criticism, too, but it just seems more intense when the brother is White.
Abu Sinan said,
April 11, 2006 at 4:03 pm
I dont have the skin colour complex, I like dark women. Some of the best looking women I have seen have been dark, whether Arab, Ethiopian, you name it. Lauryn Hill is attractive.
As to children from a previous relationship, my wife had two when she was married young in Saudi. It certainly does make it harder, kids throw a lot into the mix. I cannot imagine having to deal with 3 or 4 different mothers and different situations.
Blended families, as they are called, are hard, even harder if there is a difference in nationality involved. That is one heck of a blog article for me in the future…….
Um Abdullah said,
April 11, 2006 at 4:33 pm
Izzy: I went to an predom black college in Atlanta and there were lots of African American Muslims there. It seems like the most successful AA brothers ended up marrying Non Muslims. Not all but a good percentage. Also some sisters married non Muslims too. Its really tough. Most women who grad from a top school, go on to professional school want a certain lifestyle and many African American women are not going to find it with a African American Husbands. Alhumdulilalah its still rare and probably things are getting better with the younger generation because I think many of them are marrying other nationalities.
UmmAli: Oh, that color things is a mess. It is so bad in Cali. I can’t believe how color struck people are. Alhumdulilah I still think African American community still shows a lot of love for dark skinned sisters relative to other communities who have what I think borderlines on dysfunction when it comes to skin color (using skin bleach, can’t go in the sun, etc)
Umar: Well he and others need a serious course on Marriage for indiginious Muslims cause there are some major problems out there. They need to put it on tape and market it . Maybe do some nationwide seminars. I dont know. The knowledge on how to have healthy marriage does not seem to be getting out there.
Umar Lee said,
April 11, 2006 at 4:49 pm
Abu Sinan, the issue with non-blacks not wanting to marry black woman ahs nothing to do with physical looks. brothers discaurage you from marrying black sisters. African-American brothers will tell you these women have too much mouth and they wont act right so get an Arab and the Arab brother, who equate beauty with lightness ( One brother told me he saw the Nur of Allah in the faces of the white girls on his campus) thik you are insane if you want to marry a black Muslima.
The CIA thing is not just from African-Americans; I will argue and say that it is even more so from many immigrant brothers.
Um Abdullah said,
April 11, 2006 at 4:50 pm
Izzy Mo: brothers with a lot of kids from with different mothers should scare you. People dont like to hear this but just because we are Muslim doesnt mean we are all the same. There are still class and cultural issues that can affect a marriage. And there is nothing wrong with considering that. Marriage is supposed to be for life and this is a person who you will be spending so much time with you have to able to connect, communicate and build a relationship.
I also wanted to say that insha Allah when you find that right brother, get marriage counseling before you get married. I think it will make things so much easier and you will make sure you and he are on the same page.
Abu Sinan said,
April 11, 2006 at 4:53 pm
I agree with you on the CIA thing, but I am in a better position with the immigrant brothers, as that is the people I know most.
UmmAli said,
April 11, 2006 at 5:52 pm
You know, the interesting thing is that only Indians, Pakistanis and African Americans have taken issue with me because of my skin tone. I remember being at an event where one Desi woman leaned over to another–within earshot of my, then, non Muslim mother– and said “she sure is pretty, to be such a dark girl.” My mom and I laughed it off, but when it came time for courtin’ none of my suiters were desi or African American, with the exception of some old dudes who wanted an addition to their harem and some moms looking to marry off their 15 year old sons.
UmmAbdullah:
It’s also odd that I never dealt with this color struck thing amongst Non Muslim black people. Non Muslim African American men were ALL over me, even in hijab. In fact I had several tell me that the hijab made me more appealing to them because they were sure that it meant I was a “good” woman, but the Muslim brothers were all looking for the “light, bright damn near white” types. It’s kinda crazy when you think about it.
I was constantly getting attention from African men,though. But the Shi’a thing and the color thing basically meant I got to chose between Iranian and Lebanese. My husband, like many Lebanese, was born and spent his formative years in west Africa. In Lebanon it’s not all that uncommon to see afro-lebanese children, that doesn’t mean it isn’t a seriously racist country…. but that’s a blog post in and of itself.
UmmAbdullah is handing out good advice. There are certainly class and regional cultural issues even within the African American community that need to be considered.
muslim gal said,
April 11, 2006 at 7:46 pm
assalamu alikeum folks
Now how i missed this excellent post Izzy
i'll never know but im hear now 
Umm Ali : african american shia? cool
Do you get hassled alot because of that though? I know theres some folk who HATE shias with a passion. I even heard a few saying that Shia's deserved to get bombed in iraq etc (astrafuillah *shakes head*)
Umar Lee: please tell me you beat the life those f*****s who made such vile comments regadring black women. I need to meet men like these. May allah just please put one of these guys along my path so i can smack em with my heels and cause irrivestiable damage!
I think the problem over here is that white has always been promoted as the ideal beauty and the norm. In asia and africa this wasnt the case until colonisation happened which set about some horriable changes. Alahmdulaiah its hasnt affected the way the majority of black people see themselves in africa (compared to asia). People make it seem like every african is skin bleatching and dying to be white but thats not the case. My point of this… well over there black (in partcular dark skin) is accepted as beautiful. Not as a rare exception, a minority, a one-off, its the NORM. Postive images of black beauty is something unfortanly thats not promotoed and when it is, it has to fit in the european standards of whats defined as beauty i.e straight 'good' hair, light skin, light eye. If my brothers werent mentally assaulted day in, day out with euro-centric facist ideology (which promotes white as the norm and standard beauty) then they'd proabably have a better view of us black women and many of our sisters would feel much happier if they werent denegrated for not conforming to society's standards and looking like what they define should be black beauty (Beyonce, Vanessa Williams).
I think this is why'll you'll find that most black african men are proabably eagar to date AA women. because many of them havent grown up with this racist, aggresive pyshological abuse (through the media, school, overall society) that has affected some of the minds of AA brothers. Whats worse is when the recent asian/arab immgrants who come from socities where black people are still viewed as slaves, they bring their b******t as well, even though many of these folk are muslim. They push this in partcular to white muslim men, who regard as worthy of getting with someone higher then a 'n***a' , an 'abd' as they love to refer to you in the arab world.
I know black muslim sisters who are married to white muslim brothers and the vicious looks they get are not from black men, but asian and arab men. They also told me that they get some hatin from asian/arab sisters who are are like 'you got him?! you got the white guy', as if my black muslim sisters are not worthy of getting one of those 'special' white revert brothers (i dont mean special as offensive or in a sarcy way, its just that some sisters view white revert guys as better muslims or regard them to make more better, understanding husbands who dont have the same cultural hang ups as men of eastern countries). One of my mothers friends whos married to a white muslim (shes black) got asked if she was the baby sitter/nanny when she was out with her kids. lol.
I gotta run but i'll continue with my points later.
tariqnelson said,
April 11, 2006 at 11:56 pm
Like Abu Sinan, I married an Arab woman because of the language, and I speak Arabic alhamdulillah. But the cultural issues are difficult at times
I know a white brother who was married to one African American, divorced her and married another. A Saudi Imam was telling me about this as if the brother was insane. I suppose since I speak Arabic and am married to an Arab, he thought I would agree
tariqnelson said,
April 12, 2006 at 12:07 am
There are many nightmare stories out there from the African American sisters who manage to get married.
Izzy Mo said,
April 12, 2006 at 2:03 am
Abu Sinan: I guess the best benefit in blended families is that if you’re not a father or mother yet, you get some practice by being a stepfather/stepmother first. I don’t know why people are so hung up on color. When I’m around people like that, I feel like I’ve stepped back in 1942.
Umm Abdullah: That’s one of the many things I love about ATL. Many, many Muslims. I think NOLA was lucky if it had 2,000. I can understand the whole lifestyle and comfort factor but I would hope sisters have a very tempered outlook on it. Some people think normal is condo living.
Umar: See, that’s what I don’t get. There’s men discouraging other brothers from marrying Black women, and then these same brothers turn around and get angry if she’s marries someone who’s not Black?! It’s just insane. Do they prefer her to be single forever? I just don’t understand that mentality at all.
Umm Ali: What’s up with old guys? Today some old guy was trying to talk to me. Don’t they see this big ole thing on my head? But anyway..it’s interesting how hijab may attract a guy who’s looking for a “clean girl.” And as Umm Abdullah pointed out, we often forget about class issues in the Black community, which could be just as damaging as the color issue. Man, can’t we ALL just get along?
Muslimgal: Where ya been? Alright, now, I got upset, too, but any man like the ones Umar talked about aren’t worth getting upset about. Don’t give them the pleasure just make dua and hope they don’t cross your path. Argh! It is my hope that with this generation of Muslims, born Muslims and converts, that we can help the American Muslim umma pull out of these jahili attitudes. It’s going to be very, very for a children to be racist if their friends are of different races. Insha’Allah, with the rise of interracial marriages in the Muslim community, we shall overcome.
Tariq: Thanks for stopping by and for you recent entries on your blog. Brother…I guess that was one of those moments where someone says something so stupid and racist, that you don’t know how to react.
Ginny said,
April 12, 2006 at 1:08 pm
Assalamu alaikum, as a totally blind person, I just don’t get quite get this color thing. I mean, I get it, in an abstract sort of way, but then again, I don’t get it. However, I don’t want to use the old cliche “I don’t care if he’s green, yellow, or purple” etc, because to me, that’s just, well, stupid. When I was a small child, I honestly thought everyone’s skin looked the same, but what that “same” was I didn’t know. I remember teachers in school talking about hair and eye color, but I don’t remember anyone saying anything about skin color, excpet when I was in fourth grade art class, and I was using colored pencils and one of them was calleed “flesh-colored”, and I asked what that meant. So I just thought everyone had pretty much the same color, since there was a “felsh-colored” colored pencil.
And when I started asking questions about color, I learned real quickly not to, I was shushed and told I’d offend people, and basically told to shut up.
I really don’t want to use the cliched “I don’t care about color” statement, but I really, uh, don’t… But should I watch who I marry, so as not to offend other people? Or, would I bring more ridicule on myself, as a white Muslim, if I marry Muslims of certain ethnicities? Hmmm. Not that it should matter, and in a perfect world, it doesn’t, but this is not a perfect world, and sadly, things like this do matter.
But I certainly woudln’t pass up a good brother, because of his color and / or because of so-called “societal pressures”. I’ve faced enough negativity being blind and having to break down stereotypes, being Muslim, and marrying whoever, or even getting married at all, is just a few more stereotypes I have to break down, so, if I’ve done it beofre I’ll do it again. OK, I know I’m not making snese, sorry, will go off into my own little corner now.
tariqnelson said,
April 12, 2006 at 1:34 pm
I’d advise, you all to look at the conversation going on at Manrilla.
http://www.manrilla.net/blog/2005/07/salafi-problem.html
altaf said,
April 13, 2006 at 2:54 am
Salaam everyone!
Could I suggest all of us talkin’ about this marriage thing get a matrimonial thing goin’ — there has to be people out there who are not into this color, sectarian, etc etc. thing… you know… seems like we got a healthy group of people right here… (though most seem to be married Abus and Umms… ) …
And don’t forget that class thing… if you are a male (and esp. a desi male) and not a doctor/engineer/accountant/lawyer etc. forget about marriage in the desi community…just not gonna happen. You *have* to look outside of the desi community —
altaf
Umar said,
April 13, 2006 at 5:47 pm
Izzy, send me an email, I want to ask you some questions about the publication I have coming up
Faraz said,
April 13, 2006 at 10:22 pm
Wow, quite the discussion. I haven’t come by your way in a little while.
I was born in Canada, but go see my cousins in India fairly often. I last went there last year, and one of my Indian cousins and I went in jama’at to Tamil Nadu, one of the southernmost states of India with the darkest skins people. We’re from a more northern state, and I am quite fair-skinned myself. I was used to seeing people of cultures and colours though coming from Montreal, but to my cousin it was brand new.
The Tamils were very hospitable and great hosts. My cousin though, kept saying things like “Masha-Allah they’re very nice, even though they’re black.” Or “The people here are really good for black people!” Basically, he was indoctrinated with this belief – very prevalent in Bollywood – that dark skin implied that the people should be rude and angry. Most of my relatives in Northern India were surprised that a Canadian (or “from near America” where everything is white and clean, as they understand) had no problem with dark-skinned people.
This implies that really, they are judging people by their skin colour. The racism there isn’t based on cultural background (i.e. “African” versus being “black”), but literally, just on the colour. That’s just sad.
As far as marriage is concerned, I have seen many intercultural marriages through the MSA’s I belonged to in university. In fact, every marriage that happened between active MSA members in the last few years has been intercultural – Arab/Pakistani, Convert/Somalian, Guyanese/Pakistani… interestingly, I’ve never seen an Indo-Pak guy marry a non-Indopak girl, but lots of Indo-Pak girls seem to marry outside the culture.
Unfortunately, of these intercultural marriages, a significant number of them haven’t worked out. And when a girl gets divorced, it often means – sadly – that she’s got no chance in the future. The divorces were often rooted in cultural differences that just couldn’t be reconciled. I knew both families in some of these cases, and they were all good, pious people. But culture does have a significant role, and that’s a reality that I acknowledge. I wouldn’t want to risk that sort of cultural baggage affecting such an important relationship.
As such, I personally would strongly prefer to marry within the culture. I’ve literally been asked several times every week for the last year or so as to why I’m not married yet, often with people suggesting all sorts of sisters. But there are just so many variables that I’ve seen play into things failing for others. I guess with any relationship, there’s always some risk, but I’d prefer to only pursue a situation where the obvious risks are as minimal as possible.
Blackamerican said,
April 14, 2006 at 12:26 am
one thing in general Blackamercians got to do is get over the identity issue. Is it a requirement to marry of your own race? who maed it that way? Stop giving in to culrtural peer pressure and get on with your liffe, do what benefits you and your deen, stop worrying about being merely ‘Black’
Be a slave
to Allah
musulmana said,
April 14, 2006 at 1:59 am
Assalamu Aleikum wa Rahmatulahi wa Barakatuhu,
Just commenting on comment 32. My SIL is Arab and she’s married to a Pakistani brother. Also, in our community in New Orleans, I know of only one Pakistani sister married to an African American. Also, I know of one Pakistani brother married to a Latina. Interestingly enough, he never told his family he was married. It was weird because I knew the girl and knew he was married and I also know his mother and sisters. When I asked one of his sisters if he was married she said he wasn’t. All this going on under the same masjid roof! SubhanAllah. Eventually, it got around so that he had to tell his family. Until this day, although I heard they are nice and receptive to the girl, they don’t introduce her to the larger revert and Latina muslim community. I stopped asking about her for fear of upsetting the family. They are all pious people but it’s probably not accepted within their Pakistani circle of friends.
Also, there are SEVERAL brothers and sisters in our community that just marry first and introduce their spouses to their parents later. Usually, it’s a brother married to a revert but it’s not limited to that.
Finally, we have some brothers that simply will not marry anyone unless their mom picked her for him. This can be difficult because the moms want sisters from their region, not just from the same country, plus, they must be compatible with their American born and raised son.
The intermixed marriages that I have seen work and that includes mine, my SIL’s and most of my friends) are where the couple are Muslim in their identity and do not stick to any cultural norms (besides keeping their own language).
Just my observation.
Ann said,
April 14, 2006 at 10:45 pm
Assalaamu alaikum,
I had so many thoughts while reading your post and the comments, but I’ll be brief.
I agree with… was it Abu Sinan? who said that one reason that some converts want to marry an Arab is so that they can learn Arabic and that their children can learn Arabic.
Also, I would recommend that if you find someone that you’re interested in marrying, you meet his mother and sisters. This is especially true if he’s from another culture, because you want to make sure that they’re accepting of the marriage and that they will welcome you. If not, you might have a lot of problems, no matter how perfect the man might seem.
Elizabeth said,
April 18, 2006 at 1:52 am
“I dont have the skin colour complex, I like dark women”
Sounds like a skin color complex to me!
Personally, I can’t imagine picking a mate based on their skin tone or what foreign languages they spoke. I just have to really LIKE the person…
I have a number of Arab Muslim friends and acquaintances and they aren’t all getting married either. One woman friend I have complains the men are “too Muslim” and maybe the men think the women aren’t Muslim enough, I don’t know…
Saadia said,
May 8, 2006 at 7:21 pm
Assalamu alaikum,
I’ve never posted on a blog, but the comments re Moroccan women prompted me, so here goes. I was born in Morocco of a Moroccan mother and a Caribbean father and now live in the Caribbean. My mother was half-Sudanese. I am Black. So here you have a Black Moroccan Caribbean Woman who is educated, living in an island where the Muslim Community is very small and mostly indo-pakistani or of that descent. Get married? Hah! If you think it’s difficult getting married as a Muslim who is Black in the US, you should try this on for size. Plus trying to marry using a marriage service also seems to be next to impossible, since once they realize that you are, wonder of all wonders, Black, you are no longer suitable, even to African American brothers. So, yes race is an issue all over, for Muslim Women of African descent. And by the way, my being partly Moroccan is no advantage,
Johara said,
May 17, 2006 at 12:54 am
ive been reading abou this SBWS syndrome and pondering if things are really as dire as they want us to believe. Im not sure, but i am certain that some of these problems black women are addressing are very real. I refuse to let this society undermine me as a woman and an individual,to make me believe that i am not attractive or desirable as a human being.
If a man plays into the mindset that im not suitable for a wife because i am black, that would be his ultimate loss. I’m not saying things are easy out here for us,but they are certainly not impossible,and ive heard black men and men of other races express their interest 4 black women.
the man in my life is Lebanese and hes one of the sweetest men that I have ever met and has treated me with respect and affection. Now of course before meeting him i knew/thought whatever,that no arab man, at least no the average arabic guy really dates or marries black women. I know with the desi community there is a big hangup with being dark and light, and in the arabic community, theres just a hangup w/ black people period.
i had heard the stories of how these men dont marry american women but instead date them for years or sleep w/ them until they can go back home and find a girl to marry. i had all this in my head with him and even though we have alot of love for each other, i was on my ps and qs,
so what i really had to do was get out of my own way , because he turned out to be a good man who recognized a good woman who cares for him and vice versa. he does not need a green card nor is he using me for sex, as is supposed to be the scenario. in a way i had to let go of others perceptions of me as a black woman in this country to let myself embrace love.
if a man cares for u he will treat u accordingly, he will not play into these notions of what the media says u are, he will love you for who u are, i know u all know that already but i just had to say it again
ma3 salama
Blak LIon said,
July 21, 2006 at 1:26 pm
Salam aleikum. Umar Lee, I saw your blog site, and loved it. The pic of John Brown, the passion for justice and equality for all and against hypocrisy by Muslims.
So I followed Umar’s link to this site and read this page. Racism, colorism, and classism among Muslims has held us back since before Allah perfected religion for mankind. Tribalism in different forms. Now education, culture, and language do make a diffrence in compatibility, and some cultures are inferior to others becuase of the differing levels of morality involved, but the people are equal under the law and deserve equal treatment according to revelation, with or without the US Constitution or Bill of Rights to corroborate this. The cultures that I would say are inferior to others are the ones in which these evils of discrimination, love of the oppressor, and hatred for the oppressed are the norm. I’ll call it out and say that ‘Desi’ culture (South Asian) is one of them, because whites are revered for their power and status, no matter how ill-gotten it was, while non-whites are seen as unworthy of respect. This is not said out of hate for them, but out of observation and out of what Desis themselves have told me. Egalitarianism is not their strength, despite the individuals among them who practice it. Oppressors are not moral equals to their victims, and Muslims the world over must see this. Allah said he seizes the oppressors while he answers the du’a of the oppressed, so how can one call him or herself a Muslim and then honor those who benefit from oppression while they disrespect those who suffer from it. Human beings seem to share a propensity to blame the victim, which explains to me now why women who are raped are afriad to report this crime the world over.
So now today, we struggle with the same issues among Muslims, and it is good that you all are in here reporting honest observations of what you see, and refusing to entertain these old biased ideas of prior generations who were so obsessed with dunya that they would stand in line for hours at a US Embassy to get a visa so they could come and open a haram business and live the American (slavemaster’s) dream. I’m so glad your generation has sworn off your parent’s loyalty to materialsim, racial bias, and the life of this world.
May I offer us a bit of advice? Let’s raise our children to be not just good Muslims, but also good spouses from the time they’re small. Let’s raise them with the thought in mind that we’re raising another Muslim’s future spouse. And let’s stop telling them to delay marriage because of the disbelievers’ educational system. Delaying marriage to find a good spouse or become a viable spouse is a good reason, but not because of those aoround us, and as parents, let’s be willing to help our youth marry young to protect their chastity. Some of us have children out of wedlock already, and we can help those children avoid the same pitfalls. Everyone won’t get a degree or a PhD or even a lot of money, but everyone will be concerned with the opposite gender whether married or not.
And may Allah reward you all for ridiculing and disregarding illegitimate barriers to marriage by which we build families and civilizations.
Salam aleikum.
Linked: Is There a Case for Legalizing Polygamy? BECKER « Islamic Law, Etc. said,
November 26, 2006 at 5:57 am
[...] This as well would not necessarily be the case as long as there is lacking paternal investment, a stigma of marriage as being something negative is perpetuated (SBW syndrome), and a lack of concentration on education and nutrition for those that will be those future polygamous husbands. [...]
Hajr said,
January 9, 2007 at 10:56 pm
Salaam,
I’m a professional Muslim “African-American” woman and find that mostly non-black Muslims will offer courtship, but usually have a major flaw, like incompatible education, former drug addiction, expect their culture to dominate with regards to a woman’s role, etc. So where do I find myself, still single and can’t even expect a qualified Muslim black American male (esp. on the East Coast) to qualify. Some professional men (usually white) i’m attracted to are indeed educated and courteous but not Muslim, so hands-off for me. Even if I am attracted to a Muslim black brother my interests in horseback riding, sunsets (yes i said it) and travelling is too “bougie” “white” or otherwise foreign to them. Any other courtship with immigrants i generally don’t trust, esp. if their family is FOB and have a racist background, which i love how they can get away with being racist by calling it “own culture” racist is a racist is a racist no matter how polite you state it. I wish they would take their racism back to their homeland, we worked too hard in this country to try to rid it, Islam isn’t supposed to have it, now they want to import it. Astaghfri’Allah.
Florian said,
January 28, 2007 at 8:09 pm
Hi,
I found your blog via google by accident and have to admit that youve a really interesting blog
Just saved your feed in my reader, have a nice day
muslimlicious said,
February 18, 2007 at 7:05 pm
i really like these blogs! mashallah i found this blog via umar’s lee n i found his one thru google..eniways..i find this realli weird as ive seen it 2! ive noticed that da blk converted muslims that live here in da UK r married 2 da other races that arnt theirs..ive only seen one family n deyr born muslims from nigeria i fink..tha thing is..y?? i mean like im somali n i dnt wanna get married 2 a somali person fo ma own reasons..but i wanna get married 2 preferably a blk sum1 hu aint somali doe :S mayb its cus ive seen 2 many act tha same mayb i havent seen enuf but hey thats jus me..ive also seen some salafi guys that force their wifes 2 wear a niqab..1st off..whats da difference between salafi’s n sunnis..wha is salafi?? all i noe is that all their women wear niqab n majority of dem r converted..cn i get some help im realli confused :S
Izzy Mo said,
February 19, 2007 at 3:02 am
Well, Muslimlicious…
Umar Lee knows best about the Salafis and I’m learning from him. His blog is really helpful in understanding Salafism. May we both find suitable mates.
Veronica said,
June 5, 2008 at 7:35 pm
I am a African American Sunni Sisiter orginally from Oklahoma , but have reside in Baltimore, Maryland for other a decadeI work for the Department of Defense and prior military. I use to go to the Musqid and see many of my sisters coming to Islam because of “A MAN”, or some kind of hardship.Many had several children and were not educated, nor interest in getting one . There only thought was to find a husband. I hate to say this but I can see why alot of the brothers refuse to marry them, I also feel for them for not wanting to better themselves; their only thought was to find a husband and believe me on the East Coast its hard to find a decent Muslim Man. Alot of the ones I observe when I first came to Islam converted in jail, most wanted to control a sister and the others would rather go after non muslims. I did find my mate. A Senegalese African, whom completes me. He’s a hardworking man, speaks french, Wolof and English, educated in Africa, born Muslim and lets me, be me. I am 39 years old and it has taken me a long time but I was bless to find this man. I realize long ago I would have to go outside my race or culture to marry and I did. I really got to know him and have found a wonderful man. I feel if more sisters would be open they would be able to find their mate. I hope us as Muslim could come together; I see so many divorces- Muslim finding it easy to divorce and mothers raising children alone. I have embrace the Muslims from Senegal they are open, caring , decent, good, happy people, and I hope one day my huband and I wil return to his homeland.